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Part 1 of 3
Advanced PLC Programming
Productivity3000 from AutomationTalk
today our topic is going to be our Productivity 3000 and this we've done let me back up. We've done a couple of these are ready so we've done like what is a productivity 3000? What is a PAC vs a PLC? We've done an overview. We did a little bit of programming in the beginning. So this was going to be a advanced programming. Tom set up some really good demos we've got here and spend most of the time on the software showing how to do some of stuff and then we actually have some more advanced programming that will be doing in future seminars but if you haven't watched the previous two or three or four that we've done please go back and watch those see them on the pre-recorded on the web page for automation talk right Well, I said today is gonna be our productivity 3000 advanced. I'm Shane, I'm the host. Tom Elavsky has spent a great deal of time putting together these demos in the program. Over here to my right, your left is actually one of the P3 CPUs right with a full rack and connected to that is a local expansion rack and then we've actually over there near Shane that's what you're seeing on the screen right now, I've actually broke out the their seven communication ports on this CPU, so I've actually broken those two of the ethernet ports out one for communications down to one of our stride switches and then the remote IO goes to another stride what you're seeing on the video screen right now is actually an expansion rack with a local expansion connected to it via the usb and the two are actually interconnected by one long ethernet cable and also from the hubs over here by me we're going all the way over there to the end to a C-more. So the setup here is basically we're trying to use local expansion and then also slave expansion we're also going to communicate with the GS driving a motor and we're also gonna demonstrate some analog stuff, PIDs and let me say this is part one of advance programming gonna come up with a part two because in this forty minutes there's really no way we would be able to cover all the major programming features within the P3 programming software Let's talk a little bit about the hardware real quick there's one CPU its a P3-550 we have the option of 4 different isle racks so we can do 3, 5, 8 and 11 slots We also have the 7 built-in and communication ports also local and remote IO capability and one of the nice features within the P3000 is the built-in 50Mb memory which allows the end user to not only put project in there but also you're able to you know put all your documentation and your own comments and nicknames Next slide please? lets talk a little bit about the hardware we talked some about it with the 3, 5, 8 and 11 slots we have an option of AC or DC power supplies there's no budget or power budget restrictions you don't have to worry about like on some of the other products action calculate how much current draws on your power supply the IO is hot-swappable and also you might see on our demo here you probably can't see it there but we also offer the ZIPLink wiring solutions that we can connect up with both in direct terminals use outputs and relay outputs to the units on the next slide real quick let's just talk about there's 35 different IO modules and a AC/DC input-output that's relay output of course and if you go to the next slide we also part of those 35 modules on include analog inputs and outputs on both the voltage current and were actually in our demonstration today we are using quite a wide range of the analog modules actually I don't think we're using discrete because all the high powered instructions kind of involved numeric type on values and information yeah I think discrete is discrete if if you've used PLC's you've obviously used some discretes so yeah but it was to get into the more complicated more powerful modules instructions involved I love those analogs with the displays and those are awesome Maybe we should mention real quick at the patent-pending LCD display on and I actually made news when I was setting up some of the demonstration here to actually double checked up make sure my temperature and distant probes of everything were giving me the correct values and make sure I had the right channel selected This next slide hopefully you'll see it on your video what we're gonna cover on in the software sold we're gonna go right down through these my engineer told me if I spent five minutes on each topic you know it would take the 60 minutes and were already 10 minutes into the show We're gonna have to fly through some of them The first thing I wanted to do real quick we've covered this another video so please if we go through this too quick you know go back to the other videos and see it but I'm gonna bring up the hardware configuration and if you can switch me back to I need to get over to the computer up here, the demo computer and the first thing I'm gonna do is... actually, you can go to the next slide they may be able to see it there but there's the and slide after that I think there's even more information so here's the hardware configuration on next slide and basically... Oh, we're actually showing the computer... I'm sorry that I had to do this and I apologize there we go and just for the heck of it I'm going to this remote base to my left to your right and I'm gonna show you the remote slave module and basically we actually are gonna demonstrate this we hook the printer up to it so here's how easy it was for me to go in there too that RS232 port on that slave and actually configure it for ASCII data and set BOD rate the other numbers now now your saying the slave over here you're communicating with it through the CPU and you're also using another COM port on the slave to talk some of the device... Exactly which is kinda neat we also should mention should we mention in the past that you know I can have my CPU over here on one side and through an ethernet cable have a remotes slave sitting out there with the RS module set on and on the front of that is a USB connection I can actually walk out there to another location of my factory your plant and plug in my laptop and set there and program and monitor and make changes to the program so we got that setup and I also wanted to show you in the hardware configuration and I automatically configured these You know once was we had everything hooked up right from the software also I took and used an E-drive ethernet card for the GS drive down here and connected that up to the remote IO it actually brought that up so what you're seeing there is all the different setup parameters and everything with the ramp and the bolts for first digital if you're familiar with any kind of AC drives so basically this is how we you know we can get directly them and I can change those parameters and and adjust them and set them and also with the GS right yes read on commands were going to demonstrate I could actually sit here through C-more actually run and control the drive Next topic we want to talk about is going to be tag database, I'm gonna show that to you very quickly If I can bring that up there hopefully you're seeing this and I know you're probably not seeing out slides but if you are on your also on the video but here you know the whole thing with the P3 is its tag name database programs every function controlling everything else I do I'm going to use tag names all the discrete analog of modules already have known encrypted base slot bit number type IO addressing but you know I can just as easily if I got it loss limit switch its hooked up to some kind of guard connected up there I can change that need to that and then do more programming to do it that's just going to give you a general quick overview of the tag database and also with those tag databases go to the next slide for our reference we can also export, so once I've setup my programming I can set here and do an export tags and I'm not going to go through the whole thing but I can create a CSV file with all the tag names so I'll make sure because I always forget that you want to include your IO's checked the little check box too including IO's here and create a file name in a folder location and Thats kinda how you do that and then real quick Once upgraded those tags if I'm gonna use them in C-more There's part of my C-more screen development I can actually come in here and actually import that tag name database and you're gonna see a dialog box pop up here and you're going to go out browse for that CSV file and pull it in you actually all set so no if I take one of my elements within this screen within C-more I can actually see the different tag names and the order then assign to the different devices and elements so back to the P3's software lets talk about task managers is one of the cool features if you look down here in the lower left corner we have task manager and not seeing the whole thing within our demo today created 8 separate examples of advanced programming features are within the P3 and try to keep them uniform and separate everything. I actually I took all 8 and I created a separate cast for each one so they literally have their own programming screen for each one within the task manager if you look I have all 8 of these here sitting under one every scan those ladder logic functions that were running today they're all running every scan I could very easily if for some reason I don't want my GS drive to function anymore I could take that, grab it and drop it down here under disabled task and effectively that is no longer being scanned and it won't work If doing troubleshooting, debug you know I can take any of the things I'm trying to do and I can instead of running them at the full rate if for some reason if I want to run them slow I can run them every second I can run them when called so I can actually do like a subroutine and drop some of my routines or my tasks within run one called and call them actually from other parts of the program and I can also set up parameters in everything so when the CPU is first brought up in the run mode I could just have a certain task or ladder logic for the first scan only that was kind of a quick I'm just gonna put the GS drive back where it was but thats Basically just a click and drag? Yep and thats just beautiful I know with direct logic everything a lot of times where on phone support helping customers we you know we've given little trick of sticking an end statement inbetween part of logic that try to troubleshoot it and with the task manager you know if you're structuring and controlling the way you write your ladder logic you could you know use this to troubleshoot with So that kind of covers those points the very first thing we want to get to if you can switch over to C-more and what you're gonna see is... if you watch this on the Click advanced programming we did a very similar thing we call it mixology but basically were taken a drum sequencer a drum timer and were actually sequencing events and in this case we're gonna take these three tanks filled with different colors and empty them into a mixing tank and mix it drop the contents into a tanker truck and and then drive away and we're doing this whole thing basically with the drum timer quickly switch back to the demo computer gonna see the drum instruction and.. right here.. gonna open up the drum instruction well here's my drum and it's a little difficult to see on the screen I know you're not seeing the slides on as far as I know but what's nice with the P3 is I can assign my step numbers and my elapsed time all the different output functions and I can put in a real world names to them again part of my tag database and once I get this done totally developed as shown here I can actually take this and you know dump it out to exported and then import it right into my C-more and in with C-more I was able to drop that into the various elements that I wanted to control within the symbol so if you switch back to C-more Shane is going to demonstrate first of all we are in manual mode so nothings going to happen so Shane is gonna switch us to auto mode and we're going to start the sequence and you'll see the tanks filled with liquids a tanker truck pulled up and with what we have been slowly emptying into the mixer tank there goes our green there comes are blue color... In a second here when I start the mixer there's no motion on that then we're filling the tanker truck and once it's built it drives away and saying goodbye to you Not the broadcasters just the tanker truck. We aren't saying goodbye to you You want to show the software side of it and rerun it again? Sure we could do that Actually gonna see let me get the mark ok were monitor mode I don't know if they're going to be able to see much here but go ahead and start it but you should see gone through the step number elapsed time zero, one, two, three seconds on the different functions within there but as it steps down you'll all see also see you know right now output 4 just came on which is the mix mixer on and now we're down the bottom were the tanker truck is moving so now you can actually troubleshoot by monitoring the actual ladder logic and everything Next slide, we're going to go to the drum sequencer, so if you'll switch back to C-more and Shane go ahead and go to the sequencer we just did a drum instruction but there also is an instruction within the P3K which is called the drum sequencer and basically allows you to sequence events but also within each event you can have multiple things happening so switch back to the software sorry to have you guys switch back and forth so often but and I don't know if we can zoom out a little bit on that but basically you know again I'm setting up my step numbers, my cycle numbers and the main thing here's I set up for my steps within each four step I could have all whole list of different outputs happen and I can control watch like go into that step what the starting value would be and then what the output value would be so basically you know there is a whole bunch of control I can do with the drum sequencer which again is different then the actual drum so now if you switch back to C-more Shane's going to demonstrate that if you just enabled that by turning that on and basically you know we have to flow rates were controling here we were in step two so you can see all you know flow rate one went down flow rate two went up now we're in step three and now one step four and this will just keep cycling so that's the drum sequencer little bit different than a drum you might be used to Go ahead on C-more and lets go to the math and in the math we did this with the click but basically just to show the capability of the math instruction were trying to show some will more complicated general I don't know how many times going to try to set out your monthly payment on a home loan but basically I like the one we were talking about yesterday, lets just say we want to buy a helicopter. Okay I like that idea. Buy a helicopter, how much was that helicopter? You can get a Robinson for what say $425,000? okay that goes here interest-rate I don't know what I look up interest rate is let's just say 9 percent and how long you going to take the payoff in months 10 years might want to go to a 120 months for a 10 year loan 120.. there we go a little over 5 grand a month. Okay... We're gonna have to put on a lot more shows to We're gonna have to give a lot of helicopter rides but obviously somebody's doing it because you see him up in the air real quick if you just switch back to the demo computer let me just show you real quick, the instruction box.. you leave it there... basically it looks like a big calculator within the much I've put my result I can... all I do is assign some kind of tag or some name that means something to me and then I just are put my format i switch back between formula entry mode tag entry so and I can actually down here I can you'll search for different tag names and everything and insert them right into the formula and of course down here I have all my key functions that could be all the normal math type functions multiply, divide, subtract even Pi and sine and cosine that basically covers our math instruction next if we switch back to the... over to Shane we're going to go to analog and within analog basically we have a temperature probe that he is holding in front of the screen and has 4 to 20 mili-amp but we have that tied into a P3-04AD card and that card we actually set up a scaling function all show you here in a second we also have an analog proximity... I'm sorry its a proximity with an analog output and the proximity pack loaning their okay with the proximity we can actually show distance I'm sort of a in the way their and a lot about asset they will sense from zero to attend elevators or approx leah for a little over a 3rd of an inch so the actual scale on there is fairly sensitive but again... and that's a 0 to 5 output going into a on 0 to 5, 0 to 10 analog card then finally we have a damper control were controlling with a 4 to 20 milliamp output from an analog card right its at 45 degrees so it still basically half open changes changed its full opened and you probably can't hear or see it that actual damper motor there on the side is actually controlling the register vent in there you know if you want the in close at all the way down and we could see effectively we shut off the air flow I'm gonna do 15 percent We will cut down the volume excuse me and in this heat I'm sure you'll freeze up the coils on your air conditioner so Yeah, it's a little bit... we're going through a little bit of a hot spell here in Atlanta this past week, a little bit above average temperatures If you switch back to the demo computer just wanted to show real quick little bit of the analog there we go basically you know my input I didn't change the tag name it's basically, you know, what's assigned to that part was the hardware configuration finds it and on do that I left it as it is but then my output I created a tag name called "Temperature2" and this might looked a little bit in encrypted but its a 32-bit register within the analog card and its 0 to 65,535 but because my outputs 4 to 20 4 is actually represented if you went through the calculations by 13,107 and because I know that temperature probe 4 to 20 milliamps is actually 32 to 212 degrees so that's where you see what I you scale everything right there when you set it up one simple little box instruction I do all my scaling and handling of the data of time in the days of having to write code all the manual out type of calculations you better have a spreadsheet and your calculator so that that's our analog now lets jump over to ASCII Send we're running out of time and again this is like part one of advance programming features with the ASCII Send basically I don't know if we can get back over to the.. there, there's the C-more screen there's the printer lets demonstrate it first but Shane if you would I've programmed a little message you know like the typical C++ basic programmer would do with "hello world" if you'll push up but you're gonna see a couple things happen you'll see the printer advancing, might even be able to hear it but also you'll see some of the status bits flicker on and off on that screen and also took and I wanted to show this real quick but on "The Time Is" and basically now if we could maybe I can reach over here for let me advance the printer if you can see on the video there you know the top is "hello world" and below that "The Time Is" its like 14 something or another I can't even read a figure but date of order Hold it up Huh? Okay zoomed in so there's are there's are result just a simple receipt dot matrix printer but what I wanted to show you on as far as the advanced features behind you if you jump back over to the program's screen, I don't know if we can see it down there the top one here I got my arrow on here is actually where I actually actually put "hello world" and I was able the put that's the ASCII right into the let me bring that up for a quick there we go.. as you can see above I assigned a serial port for which is a RS2321 which is that serial port on the remote slave module here's where I put my ASCII text don't have to use them but I created some tags for the in progress and complete and also assigned to characters on 0x0d a carriage return and I'm pretty sure a or 0a is aligned so what you're showing there's just instruction right one instruction on Basically set up the port Tell it what to do You might see here, let me slide over and I set up a push button right here we're not gonna talk too much but contacts and quarrels but I threw a contact in here and I called "C-more_ASCII_Hello_World_PB" and I was able to export-import that in the C-more put it as a button and you know, got me all set the other thing I wanted show here because on the time in is, that took a bunch of data and I was able to use there's a bunch of our instructions within the P3 that'll allow you to our handle ASCII strings what I was a bit do with the pack string as I could put in quotation marks the time is it was 15 characters and then within the P3 we have hours and minutes and seconds and a calendar with the year and a month and date I was able to build or pack a bunch of strings together and I called that "Time" and I was able through the ASCII Send I was able to say "Send 'Time'" and it actually went in and grabs the current time and everything and sends it out to the printer That's what we're gonna jump down to on C-more.. if we go back to C-more this look at a little bit of a receive there's a lot of things going on on this screen on C-more as you can see in the video but what I wanted the demonstrate here's the show all the various flag bits that are available for or the ASCII out commands.. yeah the ASCII out basically We took a barcode scanner with a RS232 output on it and we wired it to the RS232 port on the CPU basically what I did here... I can also show how many strings I counted and there is some enable buttons I don't know if you can see the video but well here's my barcode scanner and what I've done If I can find my little sheet here is I can... I actually created a barcode here.. I know the camera can't see this but you can see, I have to barcodes basically I'll shoot that one so the first one I just shot is 0380490460 then the one below it is 041143, but just to demonstrte how easy and quick it takes to bring, with a barcode scanner or reader, that information into the P3 and if we switch back over to the demo computer and once again that was pretty easy just basically plug, setup the port Yeah, yeah I have, I have one you didn't have to go in and write code or setup ports in some separate you just write instructions... here it is open it there and again there's all kinds of status bits and stuff we can set tags up for for a monitoring and troubleshooting a other uses and then here I just said I was going to read that from the CPU-232 port I was going to use them fixed length of twelve characters in this case I didn't need any of the termination characters but basically all took for me bring that barcode scanner in I think next we have on our list we have to think we were got about ten more minutes we have two more instructions and again they're both about as simple as everything we shown you so far. And next, what I need to go to if we can switch back to C-more and if I can get shade on C-more to go to the GS drive and in the meantime ahead of them there you go You saw the hardware configuration we were able to take and connect the up to the E drive, ethernet card plug it into the ethernet remote IO port on the CPU and through hardware configuration we were able to see that drive sitting out there and we showed how now we can access that drive and and at the same time see all the parameters there set in it, but we can also control those parameters but we could also control the run stopped on the frequency of everything else so basically Shane's gonna enter a frequency we have this motor setup for 0 to 60 hertz What are you putting in there Shane? 60 I mean 50 50 hertz and then he's gonna start her up what you're seeing over there to the left side are all the various status bits there telling the communications are taking place between the CPU and the E drive card and you can actually change the frequency on the fly but well not only can we control the the GS drive in the the speed we could also read back parameters on the RPM, the temperature, not temperature but the current, everything else I didn't put them in there also below that I was doing to set a jog button so we can set a jog speed whatever you want to set there the 0 to 60. Half a hertz. half a hertz? I think we can... that I'm not sure, Lets see if we could do that okay it doesn't like half five in there there we go five hertz and you can see as long as he holds the button were jogging the motor but now if we switch back to the software screen I'm gonna show you how simple that was to do basically it's one instruction called GS right there is the various buttons I programmed for the run and the jog these few buttons down here at of these are one shots all they basically allow you to set up the various run parameters and the stop for parameters for the drive and if I opened the this is how you know this is the whole box I assign my tag names I wasn't very fancy you know I know I was doing the GS right commands so everything began with GS right so I could easily find them and then in progress complete these are all the status bits really did have to do anything with the polling time because I identified the drive when I set it up you know I knew that was going to be mode or no one excuse me and then down here below all the different parameters I'm allowed to program for the run mode and then also have parameters I can set up for the stock mode, so I can set everything up from by volts of the frequency to my minimum speed, my max speed, max rpm I should say I could do even PID's through this control but again one instruction also I have a GS read instruction we don't show here but I can actually read the various parameters coming back from the motor if we switch back we have one more last thing we got about two minutes left if we switch back on the C-more screen to we need to go to the PID and with the PID let me get to that software section here basically in C-more there is actually a template on screen where you can actually program in your process variable your set point and actually show you the output also have I brought out just so we could see all of the a proportional interval and derivative values that we actually came up with by auto tuning I'm going to show you that screen the second but just for grins, we needed to come up with some way to they'll control some variable very bored so on our case we got a little bit out there in left field on kind of a fan of mythbusters so at this point I should try to warn ya were we're not really professionals but you know, don't do some of the stuff we do you hear what you have a lot of backup and stuff but basically what I wanted to do is, I wanted to moniter we make good demos haha monitor chapter so I use one of our are ProSense RTD Temperature probes with a 4 to 20 milliamps something can ok somehow I'm going to monitor temperature and I need to control the heat that put into something and so I thought well an aquarium, although this is not really an aquarium per say be a good thing because you know if we had lizards are snakes or something they like kind of a warm environment what you seeing now but after went down and we actually took a GS1 drive single-phase input now has three phase outputs this was a little bit unique but took three little 40 watt lightbulbs that put out some heat an out we wired I made a Y cirtcuit because they're 120 and although the drive to sell 220 output by connecting them to Y, we're putting about 220 accross basically two 120 volt bulbs is wired in series we set some parameters on GS1 drive to get it down there in the lower frequency because these bulbs do put out a lot of heat of course of we needed to have smiley in there with some we didn't harm any animals or lizards or whatever so we came up with some baby dinosaurs in the desert scene here but basically the GS1 drive allows us to control the output with a 4 to 20 milliamp input so if you switch me back over to the demos screen I wanted to quickly show the actual.. right here we actually use the scale instruction to bring in the input for our process variable which is the temperature so again it's 4 to 20 thats where that 13107 to 65535 and I use 0 to 100 kind of arbitrary since our temperature probe can do 0 to 300 Theres.. This easily could've been 0 to 100 but I just try to keep the numbers easy to use and the same thing I took the temperature output I'm bringing that back in from the drive basically doing the same thing and then the actual PID Loop Does that software have spellcheck? I would.. I hope so.. No. Did I misspell it? No I'm just messing with you I am just looking at terrarium. I don't know if there are 2 R's But anyway... and liked our engineer, Warren, pointed out, it's not really terrarium. Terrarium would be what? With the live plants only, not really with animals No miniature dinosaurs. Miniature dinosaurs... but here's our PID.. Again the simple you know fill in the blanks with labels and set the whole thing up and we can actually set up the P I and D and the great part of all this and let me explain real quick this isn't one of the best examples for a PID because here you know we can put heat into the application but we really don't have an easy way other than convection to get the heat out I mean I'm quite happy it's controlling the setpoint around within a degree the way it is but what I can do within I am not sure we will be able to see this in the video, but I actually was able to bring up the PID tuning loop here that's built into the Productive P3000 and by putting my PID in a manual mode I was able to come down here and hit start and it actually sat here in control of the application of the PID loop and while it was going to have to go through three iterations of aboce the setpoint then come back down and bring that back up and it established all the timing, the delta, and everything else that to get there it actually came up with the values that it did ever since then it's, you know, been around that set point for again i don't want to make light of how simple this was but again with one instruction I was able to take and come up with the PID Times up that was the wrap-up I hope you come back and watch part two because there is quite a bit more features, flexibility, and programming ability within the productive 3000 software these examples of... Do we have these examples? Because I know these customers are gonna ask somewhere we can maybe stick them. Maybe we can send them over to tech and they can put them on their website. Yeah. I think... I know when we did Click, after the fact, I actually took and created a binder... I haven't show you yet... Thats ok! But I actually printed out all the software and stuff in although a little stuff like the barcode and how we got there and set that up by kinda documented that because to be honest with you tomorrow I will forget half of this By doing that, we can actually take some of the documents and examples of programming I was thinking we can run it through tech, or possibly put it on the Learn site. I just know that after the show we always have some customers are asking on I like that example, or I want to play with that example or I want to see that example. I as should mention real quick if you want to play with the example used that a GS drive you know produce heat to produce heat with a light bulb, its not really a good application because the light bulb when it's cold has a very low temperature so basically I have to kind of teeder these are like bald so little bit to get the filaments warm so they can trip trip the drive out on overturn Just a warning it's just give you practice of playing will all the equipment and finding the ins and outs and its kind of a cool effect watching the filaments flicker at the low frequencies Alright, so we are going to stop for a second and we're gonna do our Q&A for you then we'll wrap up We have had a couple questions come in So if you have any questions for us, just go ahead and ask them. On the slide There's a little tab that says ask a question. Select on that. Ask anything you've got. Looks like a couple of people have already found it the first one is "Is the software still free for the P3000?" Yes definitely. Its on a limited time, for you and I, because we like this product I hope our management people see to keep it free forever. But we can't control that. Please, if you are even thinking about using this, go out and download it and try it. You can do everything offline Here is one... Download software for free. Buy yourself a P3000 hardware system, play with it, then send it back Yeah, thirty day money... but I hopefully what you'll find is, you know, it's going to do everything you might need for an application and more. And a lot of people look at the price of it and say wow that's pretty expensive or its more than what I am paying for Now when I say expensive, I'm saying versus a direct logic. If you were to compare the P3000 with other brands nah, you are going to be right on the line, may be cheaper but if you look in a compared to direct logic, say 205 or 405, you might be paying a little bit more, but the things that you're showing today just the easy programming the power that you have, and Tom just barely touched the capabilities of what this thing can do. So you are going save some time there. So the software is still free. Our next question, here is a good one... Tom, I don't know its been so long since I've played with some of the PLCs. customer's saying the 205 will allow more than one computer to monitor a program I noticed that the 3000 said its busy via ethernet engineer you want Yeah because the the P3000 is actually USB that you program with now I know you can program it through the CPU and you could also go through an expansion and a remote To be honest, I have not tested that, Tom has not tested that Yeah please keep the name and we will We will get an answer because I can guarantee that our engineers over in the next building they have definitely tried that and will have an answer for us really quick. Tom and I haven't tried it.. Yeah and I would hope you know, to be honest with you, I would hope there would be a way that I can take and whether it's through USB and ethernet or something, that I'd be able to monitor the program from two different computers. Here's how we can answer it we're not lucky enough to have more of PC's in here Nah, but we will get an answer on Ok... Do you plan to add more modules, high-speed counter, stuff like that? Well, yeah. Definitely! When we launched the P3 you know, its one of those things. If you look at the time on any of our PLC's you know you don't launch everything all at one time you try to get out what you can and build off of that. Now they have been working on many more modulus... Ever since the beginning of the P3 they're just some of them that are that are taking a little bit more time or they want to add a few more features a customer's asking for. Because we will throw beta stuff out and customers come back to say hey why don't you go ahead and add this this in there so they'll try to go out what is the time of execution of one bullion instruction now we have been on one of our slides for our original P3 I don't remember off hand... I think a 1000k will execute in .6 milliseconds I know thats thats not right engineer? it's on the specs... we had it on a slide on our origional P3 and some people are came in a little later then from the beginning. we've had... I don't know what we did three pre-recorded on the P3 and then we got several lives ones. Yeah... We did a general overview on P3 and we have a lot of that... if you haven't watched any of those I suggest you give it a second go back to watch the for pre-recorded and we'll give you a lot of information on that but don't worry with we can also ... Its one of our customers actually in russia that asked that question but that we'll be glad to get back with you on that alright we're going to go ahead and if you have any more questions please ask don't worry we will would just email you directly but we're gonna go ahead and close out because we are running out of time so, thank you for those questions of the good questions. We like getting stumped Tom and I are just two people and we have over a eight thousand products so it's a lot for to guys to know but we have the resources here in house at automation direct so we can always find the answers for you Thanks for coming in everybody, Hope you have a great day! Thanks.